Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Seth Jordan's avatar

***AN IMPORTANT NOTE ON PROSTITUTION

I often write about controversial topics, and sometimes people don't like what I write and unsubscribe. They don't usually tell me why, but with this last article on polyamory one of my unsubscribers did. I thought they made some important point about prostitution, so I asked if they'd be willing to share their thoughts with everyone here in the comments, but unfortunately they haven't replied back so I'm going to share them instead (I'm retracting their name in case they want anonymity). I've also included my reply to their message so you can get a better sense for my thoughts on what they shared.

~ ~ ~

You apparently haven't heard of or considered the Nordic Model as a legal framework to deal with the issue of prostitution: i.e. decriminalisation of sellers and criminalisation of buyers and provision of funding for exit services for the overwhelmingly female victims. It has been implemented with a good degree of success in various countries round the world.

If you inform yourself of the research of academics such as Melissa Farley you will find:

Prostitution is a form of gendered violence: the majority of sellers/sold are female and the overwhelming majority of buyers are male.

Studies have shown 90% of women/girls in prostitution worldwide are under the control of a pimp.

A very high percentage of those in prostitution begin as minors: so to condone/legalise prostitution is to do so for child prostitution.

Women in prostitution have higher rates of PTSD than military veterans and higher rates of murder than any other civilian group.

Women and girls in prostitution (and porn) have very high rates of childhood sexual abuse and rape compared to the rest of the female population: this experience 'grooms' them to see themselves as worthless sex objects- a kind of training for prostitution.

Men who use prostituted women are more likely to be partnered than single: the prostitution use is a form of infidelity therefore, and the self reported motivation of buyers is commonly to have the opportunity to do things to a woman that their partner would object to.

I'm letting you know that I'm unsubscribing to your substack on the basis of the unexamined and offensive misogyny and classism I feel you have displayed through your inability to condemn the social evil (I believe demonic and asuric beings are involved) of pornography and prostitution in this piece. You are almost certainly protected from being used in prostitution due to your (male) sex and class privilege: you appear only to have thought about prostitution from the perspective of a buyer, due to these privileges.

Those who haven't developed spiritually to the degree they are capable of seeing women in prostitution as deserving of the freedom to be able to survive financially without being raped for money, and that EVERYONE deserves to live a life free of suffering from the massive attendant physical, mental, emotional and spiritual violence from the men who use prostituted women, I feel, can have little to offer me. In my view such a understanding represents a relatively low bar of moral development. It is also in no way a coherent Christian/anthroposophical position to take. (Do unto others as you would wish to be done unto you).

Best wishes

_________

~ ~ ~

And my reply...

~ ~ ~

Thanks so much for your message, it brings up a super important issue that I did treat in a very shallow, cursory way in my article. I agree with all the points you make, and I'll try to explain my own understanding so that you get a better understanding of why I wrote about prostitution in the way I did. I'm grateful for the opportunity.

First off, I haven't heard of the Nordic Model, but that sounds like a good legal framework to address some of the issues you brought up. And I am generally aware of many of those issues. I know that most prostitutes are women and that they're forced into it, either through sex slavery (being sold by their parents or tricked into it) or because of poverty (another clear form of coercion). And I know that the term "sex worker" has become popular in recent years among liberals who think it's more empowering, but that many prostituted women have pushed back against it and said, "We're not doing this because we chose to. We're being forced into it. So let's not make it sound healthy and good." (There's a similar movement in the disabled community, trying to reclaim the term disability.)

So, I'd say that I ENTIRELY agree with you that "women in prostitution [deserve] the freedom to be able to survive financially without being raped for money, and that EVERYONE deserves to live a life free of suffering from the massive attendant physical, mental, emotional and spiritual violence from the men who use prostituted women." Yes. So then the question for me is, How does one do that?

First, I think it's important to recognize two different things here. One is that there's a clear human rights violation - there's the element of coercion, of force (whether economic or physical), as well as the brutality and violence of prostitution. And then there's the element of having sex with another person as a so-called "service." I think it's possible to disentangle these two things, as is clear from my earlier example - there are some women who prefer to use the term "sex workers" because they feel they HAVE chosen the profession, because they feel they do have agency. If that is the case - if someone really hasn't been forced into it, but wants to be a sex worker - do you think society should say they can't?

Maybe that sounds a bit convoluted. After all, the reality is as you described it. But the reality also has to shift, and what will that shift look like? For instance, there is the argument that if prostitution was legalized then prostituted women would be able to have the same protections that are afforded to all other workers. If we imagine that happened, then my hypothetical isn't so strange. If it was an above board, legally recognized profession and there wasn't the same coercion or brutality, could you imagine it being alright for some people to do it?

I certainly have my doubts about the above argument. I could definitely imagine that it would only encourage more prostitution, and maybe much more. And on top of that, I could also imagine that much of it would still be happening illicitly. And even if that wasn't the case, there would still be the issue of economic coercion. If nothing else changed, if we still had the same dog-eat-dog capitalist system, then most women would still only be doing it because they had to.

But this just points to the fact that we need to deal with this issue of economic coercion across ALL of society, prostitution is just the most extreme example. We need to change the economy in a fundamental way. We need to separate work and income so that no one has to sell their labor. It makes people into commodities, and puts all the power in the hands of the employers (this is something I've written a bit about in a couple articles - "Welcome back to work. Now please hold still while we put your collar and leash back on" and "Your work is not a commodity, it's your reason for being here." In an economic system that actually addressed these fundamental inequities, people would have far more agency in choosing their work.

In such a system, I could imagine prostitution actually becoming "sex work," and being a helpful, perhaps therapeutic profession. When I was younger, I met a man who slept with prostitutes. He was an incredibly awkward person - had a very hard time connecting with people - and he described that prostitutes were a life-saver for him, that otherwise he felt he would have been driven mad because of the lack of intimacy in his life. I don't think sex workers are the long-run solution for his particular dilemma, I think we should be trying to create a society where people can enter into committed relationships in a healthy way, but I could also imagine that there might always be some people who are challenged in this particular way, and that sex work might be a step on a person's particular path of development.

That's the only way I can really imagine sex work playing a healthy role in society. I assume it would be a much rarer activity than it currently is, and that people would be doing sex work out of their own free will, without any coercion. When I point to prostitution in my article, I'm assuming these things - I'm assuming, for instance, that the human rights aspect of prostitution is being addressed (and to some extent it would obviously have to be, otherwise how could it become legal?) If it is addressed, and people still want to do it (even for much less healthy reasons than I've outlined above) I do think they should be able to. If it's not violating their rights, if they're two or more consenting adults, then I don't think other people should get in the way.

But yeah, I recognize that there are a lot of "ifs" there. And I recognize that I didn't really put any of them in my article (though I do think they're somewhat implied...). So yeah, it was pretty thoughtless of me, and I apologize for being so flippant about the whole thing. Anyways, I hope that clarifies things. Thanks again for bringing up this incredibly important issue. Would love your further thoughts on it.

Expand full comment
Mary Stowe's avatar

I think more and more human beings are recognizing that freedom is intricately connected to responsibility for other human beings, for our humanity, and its survival as a whole. In the coming 6th epoch, the spirit of brotherhood will reign and we will not be able to find peace if another, or other human beings, are suffering. No doubt personal bodily satisfactions will become less important than care for the healthy raising of children and family life in whatever constellations that takes. Our human evolution is moving us away from physical satisfactions to spiritual ones that value all of humanity.

Expand full comment
24 more comments...

No posts