Apr 13Liked by Seth Jordan

Great topic and stimulating commentary.

Thank you all.

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Apr 5Liked by Seth Jordan

Hmmm . . . quick response before I head out to a sauna and dinner with a friend. I like your thoughts about the dignity of 'demeaning' labor if it is undertaken out of free will and a sense of service. I also like your vision around sex work transformed into a healing practice. I have a friend who remembers doing that kind of work in a past life. I question the word 'need' with regard to sex, though. In fact, I question that word with regard to just about everything: what does it mean? Who needs sexuality? Everybody, or just some? If everybody - then there are plenty of people who do not have that need met, so is it really a need? If just some - then why do some need it and others not? I don't know what 'need' means anymore, unless it's used conditionally - 'I need a car to get to Northampton by 6 tonight because the train has already left and I don't know how to teleport yet.'

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Apr 5Liked by Seth Jordan

Hey Seth Thomas Jordan, I love this piece, thank you for writing it. A few thoughts and speculations that I'd enjoy your comment on:

° You say that work and goods cannot be exchanged one for another, and quote Steiner as saying that this is a living lie and "impossible." This confuses me inexorably, since it is the norm in our culture. Everyone who works in the service industry, everyone who walks a paper route or cuts hair or drives an Uber is then living a lie. If that's true, then what are the manifestations and repercussions of that lie? How would we know? Or, better, how would we untangle that lie from all of the other lies that we live in contemporary Western culture?

° Your part about degradation of dignity hits home with a vengeance for me these days. I have given up most rights to dignity in my workplace, and allow myself to be routinely harassed and degraded, in order to attend to what I feel called to -- address climate change, and also earn a living. Sure, one could volunteer similar work, and there are many who do (some who are much more effective than I), but such people either have to be independently wealthy or possess an inordinate degree of faith that the world will somehow provide for them. In my experience, watching myself and others, the world often doesn't. At least not the way the world is presently configured.

° You cite the military as being an historical example of where income is separated from work. "Soldiers haven’t been paid a wage for their work, instead they labor on behalf of the whole and receive a livelihood that’s adequate to their needs." It's my understanding that for most of human history soldiers have been paid with the loot and pillage that they obtain when they defeat an enemy. It is only fairly recently that soldiers have earned a 'salary.'

° "the work which a person carries out ... must be determined by (their) capacities and the requirements of human dignity." But what if the work is inherently undignified? Pumping out septage, coal mining, garbage collection, and prostitution come to mind, but there are many others. If the person is receiving no recompense as a direct result of their labor then why would they do it? Who would do such work without direct recompense? Perhaps Steiner believed that such work would fall away and no longer be necessary? Or saints would arise from within the new society to fulfill such tasks?

It seems that helping people to uncover and live their true calling or life's mission is a key to all of this.

Great stuff to ponder Seth, thanks.

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I do have an interesting idea that can change or have an effect on how labor is viewed in the world . I call it Vours ( voluntarily hour exchange). Within communities exchange of time happens , but boundaries are not very clear. And many social groups snd organizations utilize voluntary hours . And what a person does with their time is an expression of free agency and because it’s private is outside the domain of the public , and therefor regulation.

So I propose a system of voluntary hour exchange and a accounting system to keep track to help guide and ensure it’s not exploited . A key feature is that there is a commitment to balance out voluntary hours given and received in a period. Either weekly

, monthly or such . This determines the rate of participation . This is primarily

Done in specified groups . The most obvious is parent groups that trade child care time . But it could be modified to either be with social organizations or more geographically .

A feature I’d that all time is equal . My time is exchanged for another’s time irrespective of what the labor market determines . More like how families exchange time .

Sure I should be a leading voice behind this idea snd try to become an economic king , but I think I first really just want people to appreciate it and bring it to life somehow .

We will see

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Well, I do appreciate Steiner .

I think Steiner working at a time of a Marxist revolution plays a part in such ideas .

Where I think Steiner was in the correct observation was in the three fold social order. And I think the model itself can offer some perspective on how to view or read it. The economic sphere is different then the cultural sphere . In the cultural sphere of work like endeavours these ideas that your posting make more sense . Like teaching . But in the production of goods , like farming, value for production makes more sense .

I believe labor laws and wage laws actually reflect what Steiner was referring to. Despite these social controls the social system is still gamed toward great income disparity . And oddly by those that seem to gather to discuss how to social engineer the world ( WEF).

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