According to a new poll, a majority of Americans think society needs a major overhaul. But where can we find the ideas to accomplish this? In social threefolding.
"The First Amendment ensures that the state doesn’t meddle in religion, which means you don’t hear politicians arguing over what’s preached in churches, or calling religious leaders to congressional hearings to explain their doctrines. They don’t meddle in these things, because the structure of government simply won’t allow it. "
Hey - I've read and listened to some things about Project 2025, but I haven't heard anything about ending the separation of church and state. Can you point to a reference? Thanks. All the best.
If you click on "policy" and read through a few of the pdf files, "Judeo-Christian" is all over it. A preponderance of the creators are hardcore Catholic Opus Dei members. It was here on substack that connected all the dots as to who's who and who's funding what. I will have to find that again. But I'm reading their Department of Labor pdf right now and they want the president to sign off on employers' being able to discriminate in hiring based on their (employer's) religion. They also want rights for employees' to be able to discriminate against co-workers based on religion too. These pdfs are wild. Example:
RELIGION
l Provide robust protections for religious employers. America’s religious
diversity means that workplaces include people of many faiths and that
many employers are faith-based. Nevertheless, the Biden Administration
has been hostile to people of faith, especially those with traditional beliefs
about marriage, gender, and sexuality. The new Administration should
enact policies with robust respect for religious exercise in the workplace,
including under the First Amendment, the Religious Freedom Restoration
Act of 1993 (RFRA),8
Title VII, and federal conscience protection laws.
l Issue an executive order protecting religious employers and
employees. The President should make clear via executive order that
religious employers are free to run their businesses according to their
religious beliefs, general nondiscrimination laws notwithstanding, and
support participation of religious employees and employers as federal
contractors and in federal activities and programs.
l Clarify Title VII’s religious organization exemptions. Congress should
clarify Title VII’s religious organization exemptions to make it more explicit
that those employers may make employment decisions based on religion
regardless of nondiscrimination laws.
l Provide Robust Accommodations for Religious Employees. Title VII
requires reasonable accommodations for an employee’s sincerely held
religious beliefs, observances, or practices unless it poses an undue hardship
on the employer’s business. These accommodation protections also apply to
issues related to marriage, gender, and sexuality.
Unless the Supreme Court overrules its bad precedent, Congress should
clarify that undue hardship means “significant di!culty or expenses,” not
“more than a de minimis cost” as the Court has previously held.
Thank you for continuing to present three folding in an easy to grasp (for everyone) way. Like most of Rudolf Steiner's ideas, it has aged well these 100 years since he presented it to the German government after WWI (to be offered as a solution for renewal of social forms after the war), but at that time it was not given the necessary attention.
Steiner's observations about WWI in his book "The Karma of Untruthfulness" eerily describe the situation in the world today, almost to a tee. We seem to need to repeat and repeat our mistakes - generations forget the past - until we shift a little and are able to open up our minds to new ideas. Threefolding is not difficult to implement and perfect gradually, but as you well point out, it depends on our ability to grasp and entertain new ideas.
Someone has to give form and expression to new ideas so they can be understood. So thank you for doing that. Anyone reading this can find their own dim thoughts on the matter illuminated or even presented to them in an understandable way. I hope more people read your ideas and say to themselves, "This is exactly what I was thinking, I just did not know exactly what it was until I saw it presented to me."
That's great to hear, Ati. And it's true: the ideas have indeed aged well. The main difficulty is that we have so little capacity to work with social ideas. They're just so unfamiliar to people. No one discusses these things. No one is questions ownership laws, or the nature of work, or how the different aspects of society should relate to each other. At least I don't find it in my circles, or in the news that I read, and I wasn't raised to do so. But once we do start digging into social questions in this way, it's amazing how powerful and relevant Steiner's insights are.
When I listen to different free thinkers I notice that many are looking for the connections between our problems today and the bigger philosophical questions and spirituality. To my delight, many of them have read Steiner's work and some are quite familiar with it. That was a surprise as before they felt no need to mention this and now, apparently, they do.
I think we have the usual problem with people's ability to THINK in general (and not just glide on the surface of things without any desire for depth or effort). There are people who thirst for purpose and for a direction for their efforts - it is also a thirst for understanding and for the expression of ideas that they already have, but have not seen in any form outside themselves. Once you speak out something to another, it takes on a form even you did not fully experience until you spoke it out. And once you read/hear a new idea that strongly resonates with a feeling you had, but for which you had not expression, this opens up a direction for effort and striving to go forward.
It is normal for just a few initially to make that tentative step into the unfamiliar. With enough "mass accumulation" soon the many follow, even if they don't know why it appeals to them.
You are nurturing ideas that need to grow and develop or else they will not thrive. Not many tackle this subject because even anthroposophists prefer the "spiritual" teachings and self-development and, like most people today, have difficulty relating to what is social, especially in our times when the anti-social is King. This has to change because so many feel the need for radical change and yet the forces of inertia are too strong and censorship of the free exchange of ideas is so powerful today that it causes us to believe we are alone in our strivings, when the reality is the opposite. So, onwards we go!
Worth repeating that this "threefolding" is already substantially embedded in the US American system, though we have had the space and mobility to feel the "fraternité/solidarity" less strongly than Europeans.
I'm wondering, doesn't this whole approach depend on a vision of one's fellow human being as something more than just a "meat puppet" to be dealt with? What do you think, does "threefolding" have an underlying premise that every human being is an evolving actor of cosmic significance?
Hey John - I'm not sure. I guess it matters in what sense you mean that it "depends" on a non-materialistic understanding of the human being. I think materialists can still understand that society is threefold in nature, and also that certain ideals pertain to certain realms of activity. And that takes people pretty far already.
I think threefolding does inherently cultivate a space for the spirit in society. That's one of the main things it does, because a free cultural life creates the best conditions possible for human beings to become deeply inspired, and to work out of that inspiration.
And I think that really developing threefolding further will require certain inner experiences and understandings. For instance, to work with what's social and antisocial (in the sense that Steiner means it in his lectures on that topic) means being able to recognize social and antisocial forces in the human being, and that requires some depth of inner experience.
Those are my initial thoughts. Are there other ways that you think threefolding requires, or is premised on a non-materialistic understanding?
I actually hadn't mentioned materialism, but I would say it's not about the "free cultural life" making a space for "the spirit." All three aspects of threefolding depend on the quality of human consciousness that is brought to those areas.
Yes, you can imagine that this threefold structure is the best _mechanism_ for certain social outcomes. But what social outcomes are you seeking, ultimately? There is a goal beyond the structuring of the state, clearly.
Will any form hold up and work for us all unless we imagine (or simple "see") that every human individual is a developing entity, active in consciousness, with enormous evolutionary potentials?
If we can imagine that, the further development of all those individuals is supported best in a system where cultural life functions in one way best suited to it, economics in another way best suited to it, politics and security in a third way. And it is possible then for every individual able to participate as fully as they are able in each area, bringing different aspects of their consciousness to each.
So I guess I'm saying that beyond the three-way division is a dyad--the mutuality, the reciprocity, between the individual human and the human society/community--that is being tuned by this threefold arrangement. Where culture is free, the individual thinks best and society is innovative. Where economics is caring, individual good will flourishes and society is healthy. Where rights and politics involve the feeling that "you are my fellow human being," the individual's sense of fairness, equity, equality, becomes the standard in political matters.
You've said all this and more in other ways, it's just the individual/social consciousness development (call it spiritual growth if you prefer) that feels fundamental to me.
"The First Amendment ensures that the state doesn’t meddle in religion, which means you don’t hear politicians arguing over what’s preached in churches, or calling religious leaders to congressional hearings to explain their doctrines. They don’t meddle in these things, because the structure of government simply won’t allow it. "
--- Project 2025 will end all that.
Hey - I've read and listened to some things about Project 2025, but I haven't heard anything about ending the separation of church and state. Can you point to a reference? Thanks. All the best.
https://www.project2025.org/
If you click on "policy" and read through a few of the pdf files, "Judeo-Christian" is all over it. A preponderance of the creators are hardcore Catholic Opus Dei members. It was here on substack that connected all the dots as to who's who and who's funding what. I will have to find that again. But I'm reading their Department of Labor pdf right now and they want the president to sign off on employers' being able to discriminate in hiring based on their (employer's) religion. They also want rights for employees' to be able to discriminate against co-workers based on religion too. These pdfs are wild. Example:
RELIGION
l Provide robust protections for religious employers. America’s religious
diversity means that workplaces include people of many faiths and that
many employers are faith-based. Nevertheless, the Biden Administration
has been hostile to people of faith, especially those with traditional beliefs
about marriage, gender, and sexuality. The new Administration should
enact policies with robust respect for religious exercise in the workplace,
including under the First Amendment, the Religious Freedom Restoration
Act of 1993 (RFRA),8
Title VII, and federal conscience protection laws.
l Issue an executive order protecting religious employers and
employees. The President should make clear via executive order that
religious employers are free to run their businesses according to their
religious beliefs, general nondiscrimination laws notwithstanding, and
support participation of religious employees and employers as federal
contractors and in federal activities and programs.
l Clarify Title VII’s religious organization exemptions. Congress should
clarify Title VII’s religious organization exemptions to make it more explicit
that those employers may make employment decisions based on religion
regardless of nondiscrimination laws.
l Provide Robust Accommodations for Religious Employees. Title VII
requires reasonable accommodations for an employee’s sincerely held
religious beliefs, observances, or practices unless it poses an undue hardship
on the employer’s business. These accommodation protections also apply to
issues related to marriage, gender, and sexuality.
Unless the Supreme Court overrules its bad precedent, Congress should
clarify that undue hardship means “significant di!culty or expenses,” not
“more than a de minimis cost” as the Court has previously held.
Continued....
religious employers are free to run their businesses according to their
religious beliefs, general nondiscrimination laws notwithstanding, and
support participation of religious employees and employers as federal
contractors and in federal activities and programs.
l Clarify Title VII’s religious organization exemptions. Congress should
clarify Title VII’s religious organization exemptions to make it more explicit
that those employers may make employment decisions based on religion
regardless of nondiscrimination laws.
l Provide Robust Accommodations for Religious Employees. Title VII
requires reasonable accommodations for an employee’s sincerely held
religious beliefs, observances, or practices unless it poses an undue hardship
on the employer’s business. These accommodation protections also apply to
issues related to marriage, gender, and sexuality.
Unless the Supreme Court overrules its bad precedent, Congress should
clarify that undue hardship means “significant di!culty or expenses,” not
“more than a de minimis cost” as the Court has previously held
This has been much easier for me to understand. Thank you
That's great to hear, Joyce. Thanks for saying so. All the best.
Thank you for continuing to present three folding in an easy to grasp (for everyone) way. Like most of Rudolf Steiner's ideas, it has aged well these 100 years since he presented it to the German government after WWI (to be offered as a solution for renewal of social forms after the war), but at that time it was not given the necessary attention.
Steiner's observations about WWI in his book "The Karma of Untruthfulness" eerily describe the situation in the world today, almost to a tee. We seem to need to repeat and repeat our mistakes - generations forget the past - until we shift a little and are able to open up our minds to new ideas. Threefolding is not difficult to implement and perfect gradually, but as you well point out, it depends on our ability to grasp and entertain new ideas.
Someone has to give form and expression to new ideas so they can be understood. So thank you for doing that. Anyone reading this can find their own dim thoughts on the matter illuminated or even presented to them in an understandable way. I hope more people read your ideas and say to themselves, "This is exactly what I was thinking, I just did not know exactly what it was until I saw it presented to me."
That's great to hear, Ati. And it's true: the ideas have indeed aged well. The main difficulty is that we have so little capacity to work with social ideas. They're just so unfamiliar to people. No one discusses these things. No one is questions ownership laws, or the nature of work, or how the different aspects of society should relate to each other. At least I don't find it in my circles, or in the news that I read, and I wasn't raised to do so. But once we do start digging into social questions in this way, it's amazing how powerful and relevant Steiner's insights are.
When I listen to different free thinkers I notice that many are looking for the connections between our problems today and the bigger philosophical questions and spirituality. To my delight, many of them have read Steiner's work and some are quite familiar with it. That was a surprise as before they felt no need to mention this and now, apparently, they do.
I think we have the usual problem with people's ability to THINK in general (and not just glide on the surface of things without any desire for depth or effort). There are people who thirst for purpose and for a direction for their efforts - it is also a thirst for understanding and for the expression of ideas that they already have, but have not seen in any form outside themselves. Once you speak out something to another, it takes on a form even you did not fully experience until you spoke it out. And once you read/hear a new idea that strongly resonates with a feeling you had, but for which you had not expression, this opens up a direction for effort and striving to go forward.
It is normal for just a few initially to make that tentative step into the unfamiliar. With enough "mass accumulation" soon the many follow, even if they don't know why it appeals to them.
You are nurturing ideas that need to grow and develop or else they will not thrive. Not many tackle this subject because even anthroposophists prefer the "spiritual" teachings and self-development and, like most people today, have difficulty relating to what is social, especially in our times when the anti-social is King. This has to change because so many feel the need for radical change and yet the forces of inertia are too strong and censorship of the free exchange of ideas is so powerful today that it causes us to believe we are alone in our strivings, when the reality is the opposite. So, onwards we go!
Hey Ati - it's a beautiful picture you're sharing in terms of how ideas wake up in human hearts, and I totally agree. Onwards.
Appreciate your devotion to social progress.
Worth repeating that this "threefolding" is already substantially embedded in the US American system, though we have had the space and mobility to feel the "fraternité/solidarity" less strongly than Europeans.
I'm wondering, doesn't this whole approach depend on a vision of one's fellow human being as something more than just a "meat puppet" to be dealt with? What do you think, does "threefolding" have an underlying premise that every human being is an evolving actor of cosmic significance?
Cheers!
Hey John - I'm not sure. I guess it matters in what sense you mean that it "depends" on a non-materialistic understanding of the human being. I think materialists can still understand that society is threefold in nature, and also that certain ideals pertain to certain realms of activity. And that takes people pretty far already.
I think threefolding does inherently cultivate a space for the spirit in society. That's one of the main things it does, because a free cultural life creates the best conditions possible for human beings to become deeply inspired, and to work out of that inspiration.
And I think that really developing threefolding further will require certain inner experiences and understandings. For instance, to work with what's social and antisocial (in the sense that Steiner means it in his lectures on that topic) means being able to recognize social and antisocial forces in the human being, and that requires some depth of inner experience.
Those are my initial thoughts. Are there other ways that you think threefolding requires, or is premised on a non-materialistic understanding?
I actually hadn't mentioned materialism, but I would say it's not about the "free cultural life" making a space for "the spirit." All three aspects of threefolding depend on the quality of human consciousness that is brought to those areas.
Yes, you can imagine that this threefold structure is the best _mechanism_ for certain social outcomes. But what social outcomes are you seeking, ultimately? There is a goal beyond the structuring of the state, clearly.
Will any form hold up and work for us all unless we imagine (or simple "see") that every human individual is a developing entity, active in consciousness, with enormous evolutionary potentials?
If we can imagine that, the further development of all those individuals is supported best in a system where cultural life functions in one way best suited to it, economics in another way best suited to it, politics and security in a third way. And it is possible then for every individual able to participate as fully as they are able in each area, bringing different aspects of their consciousness to each.
So I guess I'm saying that beyond the three-way division is a dyad--the mutuality, the reciprocity, between the individual human and the human society/community--that is being tuned by this threefold arrangement. Where culture is free, the individual thinks best and society is innovative. Where economics is caring, individual good will flourishes and society is healthy. Where rights and politics involve the feeling that "you are my fellow human being," the individual's sense of fairness, equity, equality, becomes the standard in political matters.
You've said all this and more in other ways, it's just the individual/social consciousness development (call it spiritual growth if you prefer) that feels fundamental to me.